I don't know about anyone else, but a favorite part of playing these old CRPGs is map making. A stack of handy graph paper sits on my table that would probably last me a good 30 - 40 games if I used both sides. However, with the number of games I have on this list, I'm exploring a more digital solution.
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| There's nothing quite like a clean graph paper map. |
My hope is to reproduce maps like the above using a handy tool. I'm making one of my own, and I'll post it for everyone else once I've been able to solidify a design and make it presentable enough for others to use. Before that happens, it needs to have more features than it currently has such as saving maps, naming them, loading them, exporting them as a bmp or png, etc. I have a lot of ideas for the app, but since this is my first time programming in ActionScript 3 (or any Flash based programming), it'll take some time to get familiar with the language and its capabilities before I have something up.
Honestly, I was hoping to have something up this weekend, but I overestimated how different AS3 is from my previous programming. Right now I have something workable for myself, but hardly anything to be proud of or useful to anyone else. It only supports one map at a time at a fixed 30 x 30 without any resizing, moving, or expanding of the map. As an end goal for this, I'm hoping to make something useable as a tool to create an archive that others can submit maps to for storage, load to edit, and submit revisions. I really don't know how to do all that, but it's nice to dream. First step in any case, complete this phase and get something up so that others can take a look, play with it, and find what's missing.
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| Left: original version; Upper: current version; Lower: alternative version |
For those interested: the idea here is to create a program using the arrow keys for adding walls, doors, pathways, and markers. Currently, moving the cursor is done with arrow keys, walls are added by holding Ctrl and pressing a direction, doors (not implemented yet) are similar, pathways currently are like walls except holing Ctrl + Shift, and markers are placed with Enter (erased with space bar). This is mostly a prototype to get an idea for what it'd look like, there's still a long way to go to reach a stable program, but I see hope for it. Eventually, markers will have descriptions and unique icons, walls will have doors and special types, and the map itself will have coordinates and transform options.
Thinking on it, this application doesn't need to be limited to grid based maps; it could incorporate tile graphics, and rooms for adventure games. They're all pretty similar when you break down a room or square into a list of walls and exits. I'm setting a goal of the end of next month to have a working alpha that a few here can take a stab at if anyone is interested.
Please do let me know if I'm reinventing the wheel though. I couldn't find anything like this in any of my searching all week for a simple tool that has these features, so I've started this. Thoughts, and suggestions now before I waste anymore time on this are always welcome.
Someone told me a few months ago that there was an iOS app that did something like this. Sorry, but I don't know what it's called... in fact, the person who told me about may have never told me the name.
ReplyDeleteThat said, it sounds like a good project! No mouse implementation though? One thing that I think would be totally spiffy: Sound effects when adding walls and doors, etc. Nothing extravagant. Add wall: "Thud." Add door: "Clank!" It would make it pretty satisfying... well, for me, anyway. There have to be others like me... somewhere...
Right now, the mouse only positions the cursor wherever you click. Sounds effects aren't something I thought about. Honestly, the mapping goes so quickly as I become accustomed to the controls that I imagine sounds would overlap quite a bit. I'll keep it in mind though.
ReplyDeleteI thought about an iOS implementation, but there's only so much you can do with a touch interface. It's mostly a modular design though, so changing the input method wouldn't be much of a problem.
The sounds would have to be really tiny, like default Windows sounds. The kind that are a tenth of a second long or something...
ReplyDeleteFeh, flash #snob
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand I can only do command line stuff, so perhappes this is the right approach ;)
I've looked at quite a few mapping programs, but nothing has impressed me enough to let go of my Excel spreadsheets. I'm sure there's something better out there and will be interested to see where you get with this.
ReplyDeleteAmy, I'm with you on the sounds. Removing yourself from the game temporarily to map can detach you from the environment, so anything that assists in keeping the atmosphere would be a welcome addition. I dream of a mapping program with sounds and different styles of walls, doors etc. depending on what style of game you're playing (i.e. medieval, scifi, urban etc.)
Alright, I've lied a little (For a good cause! CRPG questions aren't allowed!) on http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/12608/software-for-on-the-fly-mapping since I'd like software to do this anyway (Thus only lying a little). Let me know if you find anything you like.
ReplyDeleteWow, that Pyromancer thing looks pretty cool. If I ever get a chance to play an RPG again (might be a while), I'll def check that out.
DeleteCheers!
@Trickster: I'm definitely considering sounds, but honestly I've been getting by with paper for now and haven't touched the program. How does an Excel map look like for an adventure game? It's easy to imagine for the 10' x 10' squares of wizardry. Can you post a map you've made? I'd definitely find it interesting to see.
ReplyDelete@Canageek: Thanks for posting that. I hope someone comes up with something.
Alright, I got a cool hit off http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/12608/software-for-on-the-fly-mapping/12613#12613
ReplyDeletehttp://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/
Check it out: Map themes, drag and drop rooms, walls, the whole nine yards. Do you like it?
That looks pretty good, much better than anything I've ever found. It does seem to include a lot more bells and whistles than anything I thought for graphics. I will try it exclusively with Ultima and report back.
DeleteThere are more tools available at the above link now: can you review them and let me know which ones are good (So I can reward and punish the people posting them?)
DeleteOkay, quickly looking at these:
Deletehttp://www.yeoldemapmaker.com/ This would be great, but it only makes small maps. It also has the issue that the map isn't moveable or expandable.
http://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/ This seems like the best so far, although with this and the above, I can't reposition the map after I've drawn something. (maybe I just haven't found the way)
The ...ographer options are way too complicated, and you can't move the map or expand it after you create it.
Thanks for doing this, but I think these are mainly for creating very nice maps that someone can look at after they're done. None of these seem built with an interface that allows quick mapping. Also, many times we'll be mapping and not know exactly where the start is in relation to the rest of the map. This means it needs to have a way to expand the map or move the currently mapped section.
So, I'll use paper for now, and work on my own mapping program eventually.
Why not just zoom out a bit in Dungeon Painter and start in the middle? It looks like the 'map' can't be resized as it 150*100, which I THINK is larger then most of your dungeons (no?)
DeleteAlso you can move the map in it: Merge all your lays, then use the little 4-arrow tool under the layers menu. I really like the ability to see how long a hallway is, so you don't have to count manually. I'd give this one another look, as you could post your maps right up on the blog then.
I guess I didn't play with it quite enough. Tonight I'll get to the first dungeon, so I'll be trying it out there.
DeleteSomeone just posted this on the CRPG Addicts blog, and it looks pretty amazing: http://mapper.gpfclan.net/ Only works in Chrome it seems.
DeleteAny idea why it only works in Chrome? I'll have to try this out some time. It almost looks like what I envision.
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