Below the Cut: Shadowgate, Déjà Vu, Uninvited (NES)

Source: Mobygames

Shadowgate - Rating(8 RPP)
1) 0 - Character Advancement: practice/experience based advancement, stat or level increases, multiple classes or characters, customize characters
2) 1 - Combat: character stats used for combat, additional combat options, turn based
3) 1 - Items and Equipment: store to buy and sell, equipment decisions, item decisions
4) 3 - Story: main story at the forefront; world full of hints and lore; descriptions for objects, people, and places
5) 1 - Exploration: open world from the beginning, visited locations remain open
6) 1 - Quests and Puzzles: side quests not related to the main quest, puzzles and riddles to solve

This is one of my favorite adventure games, mainly because it's the first one I beat on my own I believe. I can't really remember why I was so drawn in. I've planned out a speedrun for the game, and helped push the TAS to a level where it's beaten in less than 8 minutes. A TAS differs from a speedrun by using an emulator as a computer assisted tool to play the game. It's all in good fun, and if you have the time, I suggest checking it out at tasvideos.org. Once I get around to a speedrun it'll be close to 14 minutes.

Source: Mobygames (Uploaded by me)

Déjà Vu - Rating(8 RPP)
1) 0 - Character Advancement: practice/experience based advancement, stat or level increases, multiple classes or characters, customize characters
2) 1 - Combat: character stats used for combat, additional combat options, turn based
3) 1 - Items and Equipment: store to buy and sell, equipment decisions, item decisions
4) 3 - Story: main story at the forefront; world full of hints and lore; descriptions for objects, people, and places
5) 1 - Exploration: open world from the beginning, visited locations remain open
6) 1 - Quests and Puzzles: side quests not related to the main quest, puzzles and riddles to solve

The second Macventure game to make it to the NES. I didn't get into it as much. Mostly because I seemed to randomly die. We only rented this one, so I didn't get the chance to put hours into figuring it out. One of the main reasons I played the game was the character on the cover looked like Dick Tracy. I wonder how intentional that was.

Source: Mobygames (Uploaded by me)

Uninvited - Rating(8 RPP)
1) 0 - Character Advancement: practice/experience based advancement, stat or level increases, multiple classes or characters, customize characters
2) 1 - Combat: character stats used for combat, additional combat options, turn based
3) 1 - Items and Equipment: store to buy and sell, equipment decisions, item decisions
4) 3 - Story: main story at the forefront; world full of hints and lore; descriptions for objects, people, and places
5) 1 - Exploration: open world from the beginning, visited locations remain open
6) 1 - Quests and Puzzles: side quests not related to the main quest, puzzles and riddles to solve

Everything about the atmosphere in Uninvited drew me in, much like Shadowgate. Yet, I never got into this game as much due to an item that causes death some number of actions later. I never really understood this, so I'd create new games and end up saving after getting the item. It's hard to discover this feature of the game, and I continued to be discouraged when I reached a game over screen for no reason.

I questioned the usefulness of SeedyGamer's list when I saw the MacVenture games in it. I imagine he's using a definition for the term 'RPG' as broad as that used for role-playing games in real life. Having such a all encompassing definition isn't useful for me when I'm trying to talk about the games I enjoy. My hope is that many of the games that are obviously not RPGs to me will provide good counter-examples.

Shadowgate, Deja Vu, and Uninvited are adventure games. I'm curious why these adventure games made SeedyGamer's list, but Maniac Mansion didn't. In any case, all of these games scored below the requisite 10 points due to lack of character progression, economy, stifled exploration, and a linear quest. I'm combining these all into one post based on how similar adventure games are, and not to create a flood of posts where I'd have to repeat myself.

Here's why I think adventure games aren't RPGs:

Adventure games have the focus on progressing via object based puzzles. The challenge is in figuring which specifically designed item to use to overcome a certain obstacle. It could be as simple as putting a gem in a slot, speaking the right spell at the right time, or selecting the correct dialogue option. Usually the game consists of a series of these until the game ends. RPGs do include these sorts of lock & key puzzles, usually calling them quests, but the majority of the time the challenge is in obtaining the item rather than figuring out which item to use.

The main thing adventure games lack is character progression. RPGs provide a means to improve the character's stats, skills, and/or abilities. This puts the emphasis of mastery on the character rather than the player. The knowledge of what actions would work best in a given situation is in the player's hands; however, the likelihood of success rests in the character's ability to perform those actions.

Hopefully these two general points are enough to divide the genres in a consistent way. We'll see if any other adventure games find their way on to the list. On to more promising games.

Edit: If you're interested in knowing more about these games, do check out the Adventure Gamer's playthroughs on the DOS versions of Shadowgate, Uninvited, and Déjà Vu. The NES versions were a bit easier on the eyes and ears, and the interface was streamlined I think. In most other ways the games are nearly identical.